Stop Letting This Happen on Your Job Sites (Ep 298)

Every renovation site has one person responsible for the client relationship and it's not the subcontractor.

In this episode, Max talks about why clear communication between builders, trades, and homeowners is so important, how small conversations can create big problems, and what everyone on site can do to deliver a better client experience. 

Watch today's episode on the whiteboard --> https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL76rc3DrCOMb7VM9icAOQmLodNCSZTfKf

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Are your subcontractors making life difficult for you and your client? On today's episode, I'm going to ask you five questions that are going to help you get some understanding around what you can do to organize your subcontractors and keep everything on track better. Enjoy. How old are you going to be before you start to experience life like you want it? I want to tell you right now, whether you like it or not, there is a better way to do business. Hi everyone, welcome to the Business for Builders podcast. Thanks for uh coming back and checking us out. If it's your first time, welcome if you've been with me for a while. Excellent. Good to see you again. Welcome to you if you're in podcast land or if you're in YouTube land. I trust that you're enjoying what you're hearing and seeing. Right, today, you know, I've got uh, you know, this is an interesting subject because I uh it does come out of a bit of a personal experience that we've had in our company recently, and this con this conversation really revolves around one word and it's called hierarchy. And uh, but more specifically, what I'm going to do on this episode is have a conversation with you that I have with my subcontractors at various points within the business relationship that we have. And and so, you know, as you'll see behind me, I've got a bunch of questions, but relationship management as it relates specifically to subcontractors. Having been a subcontractor for two decades at the beginning of my career after I finished my apprenticeship, uh, you know, I think we get good at our craft. And uh, you know, if Desi, if you're out there, mate, um, I guess I need to apologize to you because I was a bit of an arrogant prick. Uh, I often used to say to uh this guy in particular, uh, you know, we make you as a sub-contract carpenter, we make you look good. And the arrogance that that I feel or that I you know sense when I think back to that moment in time is something that gives me foundation when I'm now managing subs, you know, for our building company. And it is it is true that our sub the quality of our the quality of our subcontractors do make a direct impact or influence directly our ability to deliver. There's no question about it. But uh, if I was talking to my you know younger self, I would probably grab me by the neck and mate, give give your head a shake. That's what I would probably say. You're way out of line. It's not that you're wrong, your message is good, but your delivery is shit ass. And so, you know, I think where there's got to be a level of maturity uh in your professional leadership, my professional leadership uh as it relates to our building companies to ensure that we we train up our subcontractors, not from a technical standpoint, that's all been sorted out. If they're good at what they do, that's great. But there's another layer that comes into the business that can directly influence the client's experience and also can complicate your life and my life as a builder if we don't lay down a few rules. Okay, so you know, as I go through my you know, little bit of notes here, I'm going to that gives you some context, but I'm really gonna position this as if I was chatting with one of my subcontractors to educate them on what's important to me, the business, and the brand, so that their skill set and their understanding of the objective of the building company all is on the same page. Okay, so managing the client relationships. Now I'm gonna specifically probably more so to do, and I'll get to this shortly, but it's definitely gonna be more suited towards um or more applicable, I would say, in renovations because I remember as a subcontract carpenter, my interactions with clients was few and far between. I mean, if I saw five clients a year from different jobs, it would be that would be a lot. Most of the time we'd rock up there, smash out a frame and trusses and get out, come back, do windows, doors, bars, etc., get the thing ready for you know um Rough ins and um and Jiprock and get out, and then we'd come back and do exterior and and interior and get in, get out. So very it was very, very um, it was uncommon for me to have interaction with the client. So if you're building new homes and you're a builder that just does that, then it'll be a lot less. I'm not saying it'll be zero, but it'll be a lot less, okay? Um, but if you're doing rentos, as you know, bathrooms, kitchens, outdoors, basement rentos, full gut rentos, additions, all that kind of business, the client is going to be accessible, is going to be on site, is going to want to stick their nose in, and um, you know, is going to be a regular attendee on that job site, which means your subcontractors are gonna have the opportunity to meet that client. So, this is why we need to vet um or we need to really confirm how it is. Don't assume that your subcontractors know what they're doing. Nine times out of ten, their intentions are pure, their execution is shit ass, okay? So, uh because I was one of those arrogant guys that just thought he knew everything, but clearly did not. So, um, right, first question. Now, instead of just giving you points saying, here you go, points one to five, I'm gonna try and help you understand what the best thing. Now, questions are the answers. So, here's what we're gonna do. Question number one who owns the client relationship? And this is important because that will then start to establish the hierarchy. So, if you, the builder, if you said, Well, I'm the builder, so I own that client relationship, you'd be right. And so, we want to have that level of clarity because everything that we're going to talk about in the next 20 minutes or so, I would say that at some point it's gonna become a big it's going to require that you have this very relevant conversation with your subcontractors. Hey mate, just want to have a quick chat, right? You might even do up a very, you know, I for want of a better term, some sort of SOP or standard operating procedure as it relates to communicating this with your subcontractor. Now, it could be just a memo or a memo, depending on where you come from, and just some sort of thing that you will issue along with a purchase order, perhaps. Please read this document. I know in JobTread I can send you a either a bid request or I can send you on your per I can send you a purchase order, and on that purchase order, I can have a document and attach that document that might be, you know, uh client relationship management protocol, expectations, whatever you want to call it, right? And I would send that PO off and I'd be like, hey, Mr. Sparky, hey Mr. Plumber, hey Mrs. Drywall, or whatever the case may be, have you read the client relationship management Smith and Sons Protocol? Yes or no? If you haven't, stop work, go read it. Like what you do, what you do. I'm just telling you what I feel, right? You might disagree, you might think this is a load of horse shit, cool, whatever. Um, so but I need you to at least consider this. Knowledge is not hard to carry around. So if you want a more efficient, uh bump-free ride throughout projects, because I'm telling you, when a when a subcontractor gets in the ear of a client, mate, it's a 50-50 split whether they're gonna cock it up or not, right? Say the wrong thing, offend the client, blah, blah, blah. You know what I'm talking about. Right, general contractors own, builders own the relationship with the client. Uh, the builder is accountable for the entire client experience from start to finish. So it blows my mind that subcontractors come onto a job that's going to be a nine to twelve month project, they have no idea that I have just spent the best part of eight to twelve months closing that deal. So, again, it's not their fault they don't understand the challenges that you and I face, but there's a reason that we're going through this this episode in you know in great detail as to what it is the expectations. So if you've never set the expectations, well then there's no boundaries. So when we're talking about managing that relationship between us, you and the subcontractor, if we don't set up boundaries and guidelines and manage expectations, it's going to be a shit show, right? So you took you've heard me talk about you know either chaos or control. Chaos, now this is what it comes down to. Chaos is a natural byproduct of disorder, which means you don't have control. So if you haven't set up boundaries and guidelines with your subcontractors, probably because you've never thought about it. So there you go. So there's a that's there's an awareness campaign that's just kicked in there. Because if you've never thought about doing this, because you think your subs are just awesome and they'll never, you know, their shit doesn't stink and they'll never put a foot wrong, you're you're dreaming. Because if you're gonna build a business, like I always say, when we're having chalk trouble with you know certain trades, on one hand, and I've done this, fire that guy, like he's done, you're finished, get off, see ya, cancelled, doik, you're out, new guy in. Um, but in some cases, there's been opportunity whereby there's a bit of a cock-up with a trade, but because they're a decent human, I pull them aside, have a beer with them, and then I start talking to them about you know what our expectations are. Maybe too little too late, maybe I've cocked that up because I've got Jed on the building site doing what he's doing. So, you know, guys, I think there's this, I need you to consider what I'm talking about and just see if it resonates with you. If you think that, yeah, there's something I've had this in the past and I've seen the destruction that that that comes from the subcontractor not understanding this whole process and who owns the relationship. Um, yeah, in some cases they should be seen and not heard. Okay, I don't want to disrespect subs. I told you at the beginning, they do make us look good. But we've got to we've got to maintain control, and if we have control, we have order opposite to disorder. We have control opposite to chaos. Got it? Every subcontractor contributes to the experience, but there should be one point of leadership and communication. Okay, a clear chain of communication prevents confusion and mixed messages, and this is what happened to us. You know, we are jetties controlling the building site. He knows. I don't need a subcontractor waffling onto a client. Because you know, this is the thing, guys. You and I, as builders, you know what our number one objective is. Our number one objective is to insulate the clients from all the construction bullshit. They don't care that the Jiprocker's dog died on the weekend and he can't come Monday. The client is not interested, it is irrelevant, it is actually none of their business. It's up to you and me to insulate the client from all of that dumb shit that goes on in subcontractors' lives. Got it? So, whenever I've got a subcontractor waffling onto a client, to me that almost represents a breach of our agreement. Do not talk to the client, okay? Now that's harsh. And for my seasoned operators, where there's trust established and the protocol is understood, I'm not against them talking to the client. Got it? Okay, so if if it's unvetted, if I've got a new subcontractor, don't talk to don't talk to my client until we've had a conversation. So you understand where I'm coming from. Okay? So I want to make that clear. So point this next one. Is confusing the client good? Well, of course it's not, right? Friendly is good, confusing the client not so good. Be approachable, be respectful, and be professional with homeowners as a subcontractor. Okay, avoid discussing anything to do with pricing, scheduling, variations or change orders or making promises outside your scope. Don't do it. Okay? Come and talk to me. Okay, if you've got questions, I'll talk to the client. We have to have this chain of command, we have to have this hierarchy in place to avoid confusing the client and cocking up the whole program. Because the minute there's confusion in the mind of the client, we start to lose control because then the client starts to ask questions that take our eyes off the prize. We're having to mitigate some of these concerns. Now, if they're relevant and they have merit, I'm not against that. But if there's shit that we've got in control, and then the subcontractor goes around me and talks to the client, and then the client comes to me with an unnecessary concern, which I already had organized, I've then got to shut that down, and now I've got this friggin' rogue buddy subcontractor. Drives me nuts. Right. If the client asks questions beyond your responsibility, you've got to direct them back to me, the builder, you the builder, right? You've got to have your subs to understand. Now, I saw a this was a there was a classic because um my wife is a is a Jiprocker. Let's say by trade, she she hung Jiprock and did a bit of that with the brothers for like a good part of six years before she got pregnant. And um, you know, my father-in-law gave my brother-in-law's and my now wife very specific instruction that if the builder walks onto the site and has a question about anything to do with the Jiprock or the drywall scope, they should go and talk to Vec, my father-in-law, the drywall boss man. They were the specific insurance uh specific instructions that my brother-in-laws and and my wife were given not to entertain any conversation around anything as it relates to variations or changes or anything, that it had to go back through their head office, and that's an example on the hierarchy chain of command. But the power behind that is that you've got the two heads of state talking, and the guys in the middle don't cock it up and say something out of school. Okay, that which brings me to the next point. What does your team structure look like? Now, you know, I hesitate, but I think when it comes down to it, here's what's when we're talking about team structure, we're talking about this up here. This is the builder, and then there's three that we've got designers, okay, we've got subs, and then we've got vendors, right? And so those guys, and up here is the client, they're top of the tree. So you gotta understand that's a really basic org chart, by the way, but it gives you an idea that these you know, these folks that are down below, these folks here, this is where the conversation happens, up to you. Okay, so you can maintain control and then you feed the client with all the relevant information. Okay, so every successful project has clearly defined roles and responsibilities. It's easy when the plumber's there, he's doing the plumbing. When the drywall is there, he's doing the zip rock. Okay, great subcontractors make the general contractor's job easier, not harder. So when I've got some one of our trades who works for the subcontractor, trade like workers for the subcontractor talking to the client about project logistics, mate, that's so far out of his wheelhouse you've got no clue. And I've got to deal with the situation here next week, right? Because that's and I've already sent a text message off saying, under no circumstances do your workers talk to my clients about anything other than being friendly. Zip it. That was on the text message. I could show you that. Zip it. Now I never did get a response from that subcontractor boss man, but I know this, and this is ironic, right, guys? This is ironic because then that I'm gonna call him a big mouth, right? He's a good tradesperson, but he's got his ego way out of check. You know, the first thing he said to my lead dog carpenter on another job, I'm never gonna work for Jed again. Like he's ex like he's not expendable because his ego's way out of check. He doesn't understand hierarchy, he doesn't understand client relationship management, he doesn't understand where his place is, right? You want to go and talk to clients and be a big mouth big shot who knows it all, go get your own clients. Get guys, anything that interrupts the flow of my project gets dealt with fairly intensely. And you can tell, you can tell this is real, this is not shit fabricated for this show. I kid you not. Right? And this is how I, when I'm dealing with EBA clients, I just don't pull any punches. I haven't got time, and nor do you, and it's waste of your money, waste of your time if I don't give it to you straight. You can have spreadsheets and checklists and shit coming out your ear holes, but if you can't deal with relationship management and you don't have protocols and systems around that, mate, you're dead, you're dead, you're dead in the water before you even start. Because if you're gonna build a five, ten million dollar business, if you want to dilly around and do half a million bucks, like no problem, you'll do that stand on your head. But if you're serious about building a better business with more profit that gives you more lifestyle, I am telling you, you're gonna have to go through this gate. Not negotiable. So get your shit together as a builder, control your operation, right? And you'll get more done and you'll see more efficiency, and you will see more happy clients, and of course, you'll see more net profit. Okay, renovations are different. We talked about this, unlike new home construction, renovation clients often live in the home while the work is underway. If you've ever done a kitchen or a bathroom, mate, we're doing a two-story, um, a two-story full gut reno right now. Clients are living in the basement. I warned them, but they're adamant. And you go to that basement and it's a cluster. I mean, it's shit everywhere. Like they're just sitting in between boxes, you know. So it's always advisable. Actually, side note, guys, I was had uh I bumped into uh a removalist crew that and I said to them, I said, would you be interested in doing jobs for my clients where they boxed everything up and then we got a container or a sea can and we helped move that out? And there was a line item that came into my brain as far as removalist services in the in the move out and the move in, and just putting a line item based on a quote I've got for this removalist guy in the sea can. Because I'm telling you that you know, clients don't realize that when you've got to vacate two levels, a main floor and an upper floor, man, that's some work. That's some real work. So, guys, just consider that. If you're in the Reno game, that you know, that might be something that you've not considered. I know this, clients love to put everything in the garage. Well, then I I mean I don't really have any place to store materials. And if you grew up in the building game like I did, the garage was always where the vanities got dropped off, where the you know, where the the the architrave or the trim got dropped off, and the baseboards or the skirting got dropped off, and you know, everything that came, all the plumbing, all the all the plumbing fixtures, all the tiles, the garage door would go on, then we'd lock it down. The garage was the loading zone, and it was brought into the house then, you know. And so the minute that the clients go, I'm gonna stack all the shit in the garage, what they don't realize is they've just taken away, you know, that process or that part of the process for me and my building company. So um, every conversation, every interaction, every impression matters. Now, especially in this today, what you know what Jed and I are very conscious of, you know, we've got a doorbell camera, it's got audio on it. You know, we've got CCTV security cameras, got audio on it. So even if your client is remote and there's still Wi-Fi in the building, those things are still operational. So we've got to be mindful that we can't, you know, loose lip sync ships. So if you're gonna have a conversation, you go out there and fire the truck up, turn the aircon on, sit your sub in there, and let's have a talk, let's talk about where you're up to, you know, because any of the conversation that happens on the building site, the client could be listening. It's not bad. If you're doing the right thing, you've got nothing to hide. But I'm just saying that if subcontractors start to get a bit, you know, loose on their conversations, that's what can create some heartache and pain for you as the builder. I hope that's making some sense. I hope that's resonating with you, and you're sort of starting to get these little red flags that are going off, going, I've got to improve my system here, which is great. Um, yeah, professionalism, professionalism isn't just about workmanship, it's about behavior, which I was just chatting about. You've got to make sure that these subcontractors are aware of all of these dynamics. Now, if you're not as a builder, then you've got a bit of stuff to learn. Because it's very hard to teach someone or take somebody somewhere that you haven't been yourself. So until you become aware of it, only then when you have had some experience that you can turn around and then you can bring someone else into that position of awareness, and then you can layer that with some education. Subs have very little understanding or appreciation for what it takes to win a retail client. It's not their fault, but it's up to you and I to educate them just to say, hey mate, have you enjoyed this project that you worked on? Yes, I have Max. Well, you understand it took me nine months to land that deal. A lot of time and effort went into building trust with the clients, and if the subcontractors say the wrong thing, the credibility of the building company could come under fire. Right, so what's this here? Are Renault's different to you? Yes, they are. Throughout the project, what's the goal, guys and gals? The answer is to protect the brand. So we've talked about social proof and reputational management, things like that. Well, you know, if you're gonna get a five star review minimum or you're gonna escalate that. And go into a full full-blown video testimonial, then you you know, anything that's sort of done or said on the job site that takes away from a positive experience affects the brand directly. Because if we finish a large project and then we're able to get a video testimonial, that has just helped elevate that brand a little bit more. So brand protection in the here and now, based on conversations we have with our clients, the way we manage our subcontractors, helps us give that brand a little bit of a positive nudge at the back end when we get that video testimonial. So whether you're an employee or a subcontractor, you're representing the builder's brand, okay? Um, while on the site. One careless comment can undo months of trust building. You know, in any moment in time, me, the builder, if I say the wrong thing, do the wrong thing. It can uh it can bring down the quality of the relationship between me and my client. Now, can it be rebuilt? Yes, it can be, but it you're better off not having to rebuild. Try and avoid those conflicts and that that interruption to your service. The objective is simple. Deliver a great project and and an even better client experience. And so the way that you and I do that is we insulate our client from all the BS. So they just see it all above water surface, you know, the ducks sliding along the the you know the water. They don't see the legs paddling away, making it all happen below the surface, right? And so I never complain to the client about challenges I'm having with subs, they don't want to know about it. Insecure builders do that because they want to try and let their clients know that they're still in control by just concerning the client with some of the bullshit politics that they're dealing with. Garbage, don't do it, guys. Hold your tongue, right? You're just doing it to try and you know appease yourself. You're not trying to help the clients. Does it help the client you talking about the challenges you're having with a drywall? No, it does not. I would say this. Hey, Mr. and Mrs. Client, I'm having some troubles with the trades, not your problem, I'll solve it. I just want to let you know that's why we've got a bit of a delay this week. Like, that's the most I would say. You know, I I did have a uh a text message from a client recently, and it was something to do with the trade taking longer than it should, etc. And it's really none of their business, we're still on schedule. And I just said to the client, yeah, understood, always building and rebuilding, because I fired a guy, rebuilding the cold stream dream team. So by saying that in a with a level of security, I understand that the guys that we've got in our business system today may not be there in 12 months for one of many reasons, and so I've just got to stand in that position and understand that nobody's perfect, me or my subs, the business relationship can go south and is no longer. It happens, and so when you have an understanding like I do, that we're always building or rebuilding the team, then there's no threat to my security. See, you gotta remember, guys, you know, ego is a big cover, right, for security. Guys think they go out there and be, you know, I don't know what the word is, but you know, like they get out there and they just try and they overkill, you know, based on their insecurity and their big mouths and they rant and rave and they throw their hat against the wall and they carry on like a pork chop. That's all because they're insecure about their leadership position. See, when you know that you know that you know that you're good enough to do this job, there's not much that'll fluster you. Is there a lot that'll frustrate you? Hell yeah, there is. But when you've been in the game, I think now it's about 37 years, it's just like I know the intricacies of residential construction so much. I don't know it all, but I've seen a lot. And there's nothing new under the sun. I've seen a shitty client, I've seen great clients, I've seen shitty subs, I've seen good subs, you know, I've seen dickhead suppliers, I've seen great suppliers. Like, mate, wash, rinse, and repeat, you know, you just it's like when the business is is is scaling up, there's stress when the business is plateaued and is stagnant, there's stress when the business is in decline, there's stress. So you might as well, if you don't want stress, you've got to look for another vocation. Because mate, building a building company is a combat sport, it just is. It's it's brutal. Okay, so just like know what you know, but understand that there's a lot of shit that you don't know. And every time you have conflict, it's an opportunity for you to learn and grow. The more you learn, the more you earn. So you need to be composed, grace under fire. When you're being attacked, you've got to keep your head on straight. And what it means is that there's an opportunity for you to improve your business system. Now I'm getting off track. All right. Everyone on a site builds the project, but there's only one person responsible for leading the client relationship. Who is that? It's the builder. Mr. Subcontractor, Mr. Subcontractor, Miss Subcontractor, know your role, respect the process, and together we will build an exceptional brand. Here's my final thought on this hierarchy, staying in control of the process, understanding the flow of risk and responsibility. Okay. Um, to any of my subcontractors that are listening, so you know, you know, I don't know who bombs in and out, who knows? I don't, that doesn't really matter. Um, this isn't about controlling people, guys and gals. Okay, we are maintaining order. And by having order, control is the natural byproduct. But we're not trying to micromanage and control humans, but we are managing the overall process. It's about protecting everyone. See what builders do for subcontractors, the subcontract doesn't understand. Whenever I like when I first met a trade and they quoted on a job and we issued the PO for that job, since then they've done three or four other jobs uncontested. Got them through, yep, you're in this one. What's your quote? Thanks, put it in the system, go right, and so their customer acquisition cost was little or none, didn't cost them a dime, right? And so they pick up one job because they've got to dive in and do a quote, etc., and then all of a sudden their service is good, so they become automatically my number one trade for that scope. So because they don't understand customer acquisition and customer acquisition cost, they're ignorant to the challenges that you and I as builders face. So if we do our part as a builder and we get that retail deal, they tuck in behind us and they automatically benefit. So it's a win-win for the the building company and also the subcontractor. When the builder manages the client relationship and every trade focuses on delivering uh on delivering exceptional workmanship, the client gets a better experience, the project runs smoother, and there's more profit left uh for all of us. Everybody wins, okay. Guys and gals, I think that's pretty straightforward. If you've got any questions on that, uh hit me up on email, max at elite businessadvisory.com. If you want to consider business coaching, hit up a book of consultation call. We can have a 30-minute no strings attached uh chit chat around strategy and what you're doing in your business well, and maybe what you're not doing so well. Um, but other than that, uh go build a kick ass business. See you in the next episode. Cheers.